Oxygen systems for the VL3

[Kevin Duggan]

HI - I'll be looking for a good oxygen system for the Vl3.  I do prefer the kind the does not stick up into your nose but goes in front of your nose and burst out a little O2 as needed.

Of course storage space is a concern as well:)

 

Any thoughts?

[Matt Ricciardi]

My colleague with an RV-9A (two-seat, side-by-side homebuilt) uses and speaks highly of the O2D2 Pulse-Demand Oxygen System from Mountain High.  He just setup an account on here, too.  I'll flag this post for him, so he can chime in directly.

Coincidentally, a German YouTuber posted a good video installing the same O2D2 System in his VL3 not too long ago:

The speaking is in German, but you can follow along well enough watching the video with automated YouTube translation.

[Doug Garrou]

I'm the RV9A guy (I'll likely become known here as "TFMWSE," for "The Forum Member With Speed Envy"). Anyway I've got the Mountain High O2D2 with a nasal cannula (like the guy is wearing in the picture). I've been really happy with it. You can get away with a small/light bottle because the pulse demand system is very efficient and the O2 seems to last a long time. Among other settings, it will come on automatically above 5,000 feet pressure altitude (and turn off below 5,000), which is how I do it.

[Matt Ricciardi]

@Kevin Duggan Errol just posted in the "Sales" forum about a factory-installed oxygen system that JMB will soon offer as an option.  The mechanical components and installation are basically the same as the O2D2 system referenced above, but it includes a datalink to display oxygen system data on the Garmin G3X displays.  Unfortunately, at about $10k, it costs 5x as much as the O2D2 system, so it's a pass for me.  I also prefer a modular system that can be easily removed when not in use since I won't need to use oxygen on many of my flights.

[Doug Garrou]

On 9/14/2023 at 11:46 PM, Matt Ricciardi said:

@Kevin Duggan Errol just posted in the "Sales" forum about a factory-installed oxygen system that JMB will soon offer as an option.  The mechanical components and installation are basically the same as the O2D2 system referenced above, but it includes a datalink to display oxygen system data on the Garmin G3X displays.  Unfortunately, at about $10k, it costs 5x as much as the O2D2 system, so it's a pass for me.  I also prefer a modular system that can be easily removed when not in use since I won't need to use oxygen on many of my flights.

There's a lot to be said for a removable system. RVs are a bit weight challenged so it's handy to be able to ditch the O2 gear when you need the payload for something else, and won't be flying high.

[Matt Ricciardi]

Interesting chart from tonight's America Bonanza Society safety presentation regarding use of supplemental oxygen.  In short, most people will see oxygen saturation (SpO2) levels below 90% and associated hypoxia symptoms lower and sooner than the FAR 91.211 oxygen requirements might suggest.  Important to keep in mind since the VL3 loves cruising at relatively high altitudes into the teens.

The full presentation is available here.  No membership required.

[Michael Hodes]

My VL3 should be done January.  I plan to fly it up high most of the time to take advantage of the faster speeds (and tailwinds when going east).  $10K for the "built in" system is way overpriced.  It is a portable system with a hole in the center of the call behind the pilot.

I've spent too much time looking at the MH 02D2 and Aithre systems.  I am probably going to go with the O2D2 system because Aithre has a lot of things they want if you want to fly above FL180.  When I was at the factory, a customer had made a 3D printed bracket that he bonded to the frame inside the baggage area.  My plane is an E-AB, so I can do this too.  I need to do a little more research on this topic, but it seems like a good idea.

[Michael Hodes]

I've been trying to learn more about the option to use an oxygen concentrator.  Does anyone have any experience/knowledge on this topic?

[Doug Garrou]

There's been some discussion of the Inogen oxygen concentrator system on the Vans board; some people like it and use it. Apparently it will support two people up to 14k and a single person up to 18k. It appears the FAA does not allow use of nasal cannulas above 18k (although I can't quote you that reg off the top of my head).

Above 18K, I guess you'll need a bottle system and you'll probably want a face mask that includes an integrated microphone. I don't go that high, because (a) I fly the RV under BasicMed, (b) it's too freaking cold up there, and (c) my RV's heater is marginal at best. 🙂

[Matt Ricciardi]

On 11/30/2023 at 5:25 PM, Michael Hodes said:

I've been trying to learn more about the option to use an oxygen concentrator.  Does anyone have any experience/knowledge on this topic?

I don't have any personal experience using an oxygen concentrator in-flight, but I found an Aviation Consumer article on the topic.  Like Doug said, you're limited on maximum altitude.  Oxygen concentrators can also be bulky and might require rigging a power supply.  In short, doable, but some practical considerations.

[Michael Hodes]

I'll have a power outlet in between the seats and that looks like it will power one of these units.

It looks like most max out at 10K feet and a few are good up to 15K.  I intend to fly high quite a bit and probably up into the flight levels, so this is not a good fit for me.  This might be a decent option for someone that plans to fly a littler lower, but still wants oxygen on board.

I think I'm back to the MH O2D2 system.  With the quick connect option, I'll be able to easily/quickly change between the canula and the face mask.  I really like the idea of the cannula that is connected to the headset, so I won't have the tube running over my ears.

[Michael Hodes]

I think AeroAffinity has installed at least one Aithre system.  I'm reaching out to them to learn more.  Does anyone have any info on this?

[Doug Vause-JMB Western US]

So I'm going to jump in here and share a few thoughts!  Our demo plane has the factory-installed Aithre AVI24EX system and we love it(our new 916 demo will as well)!  With the VL3, and our geographical area (Western US), we are always flying in the 12K - 16K altitudes.  So, we are relying on oxygen a lot!  I will be the first to admit the factory-installed system is expensive, but because of the integration with the avionics and, the way that it is installed in the plane, it is convenient to have the factory install it.  In the future, we may be introducing stateside installation options out of our own authorized JMB centers.  Because this system is a semi-permanent installation, you can either have the bottle filled in the plane (at an airport) or you can easily remove the bottle to fill it yourself or have it filled.  If you land somewhere and have them bring the cart out to fill the bottle it will cost about $38-40.  If you remove the bottle to have someone fill it it will cost between $28- $32.  If you fill it yourself (not counting the large canister(s) rental and hose set to fill it yourself, it costs about $10-$12 per fill.  A fill has lasted two of us flying in the altitudes about 12-18 hours of use. This can vary a lot based on altitude and who's breathing (inside joke!!) While this system is expensive, it is a smart system and uses much less oxygen than other systems while still remaining safe.  It has the ability to automatically adjust the usage for the pilot and passenger individually based on need. You can even use the Illyrian II Haptic pads/system (one each for the pilot and passenger) and provide individual biometric readings/warnings for the individual.  The system software integration and app data information are also great.  If you have the HealthView installed all that information is displayed on that as well.  As for how much room the system takes, the bottle is mounted on the shelf just behind the pilot's seat, and tucked up tight to the seat back, because of this, it doesn't take up the actual boxed luggage area.  This is good because you still have room for two standard carry-ons.   Sorry.... all that sounded like a sales pitch, not intended!  We also have the Aerox portable oxygen system!  This is a much less costly and naturally more simplified (think not so sophisticated) option. Usually, you'd hang this off the back of a seat, like in a 172 where there is space to hang a bottle!  Our planes are different, so you have to find room for the bottle and bag in the cargo area.  However, if you have a system like this, you could install the same "Super Quick Fist" rubber clamps behind the seat for the bottle and just drape the hoses over your shoulder to give you a "semi-permanent" install look. I've included some pictures of our Aithre installed in our plane.  Any of the dealers can go into more detail about the pluses and minuses of oxygen systems! 

[Doug Vause-JMB Western US]

A little add-on because I've been asked!  We went back and forth trying to decide if we wanted to try Aithre's new Turbo Oxygen Maker system in our new 916 demo.  We decided to stay with the AVI24 system for a few reasons.  First, the altitude restriction of the system, and second because typically we are flying 2 people in the higher altitudes, which means we'd have to have two systems!  So, for us, in our area, it makes more sense to stay with the AVI24 system.  Although just because of the cool factor that was a hard decision! If we spent more time in lower altitudes, the Turbo Oxygem Maker would make more sense! Just me 2 cents worth!

[Jim Badalamenti]

I'm new to oxygen systems. What is red vs. blue ?

[Jim Harris]

9 hours ago, Jim Badalamenti said:

I'm new to oxygen systems. What is red vs. blue ?

I believe blue is normal use - so pulse demand and red is emergency so full flow.  

[Michael Hodes]

The built-in system looks really good, but my plane is too far along to make the change.

I've been pondering the best way to "attach" the portable talk to the plane.  The "Super Quick Fist" rubber clamps are a great idea.  Any recommendations on how to attach them to the plane?

[Doug Vause-JMB Western US]

Sorry all, not checking this as regularly as I should to be more timely with responses..... but, Jim's comments are correct on the different colored oxygen ports.  Just to add on, the red port is used also above 18K.

As for attaching the clamps, if you are mounting them on the shelf, behind the left seat, as ours are, you can just screw them onto the shelf as there shouldn't be anything attached to the underside of that shelf.  As always, use shorter screws, pre-drill and trim the sharp tip of the screw just so there isn't anything sharp sticking down under the shelf.

[Rob62]

Doug, any chance you could share a photo of the hardware mounted in the baggage area. I’m in the design stages of build and trying to decide on specifications for oxygen system. Thanks in advance

Edited March 12 by Rob62
Misspelling

[Jim Badalamenti]

I went to Sun’N’Fun already having decided to do the Aithre oxygen system as I’d reserved space on the panel for the “O” button and on rear bulkhead for the nozzle hook ups (I don’t recall the technical term). But after speaking with Aithre co-founder Jim Ruttler I changed my mind to do their Turbo bottle less system. What turned me off originally were limitations on altitude particularly with 2 on board, and 2 years to turn in the system for a “refresh” (my term again). It was clear Jim felt his estimates for the limitations were skewed conservatively as he/they won’t commit yet until they have more data. He mentioned the factory has a number of units and are testing with what he says are good results, just passing that on as I hadn’t heard. But I discussed with Jim and Mike Mabry from Gulf States the difficulty any expense of finding and working out logistics of bottle fills and associated possible flights and $$ to fill, and in my situation being on a private field it could be a big hassle. On top of this the system weighs less, we think can be mounted (on the tail side of) the panel behind the baggage area, and less need for their Healthview display that for me we had no good space for due to a maxed out panel. A possible win/win/win way I see it.
Like I mentioned Mike Mabry from Gulf States joined me and they will be accommodating the install on mine and others when in the states, currently at least at a system cost plus labor basis. Hope to get a power line and cable run at the factory but not a deal breaker. There is talk of more factory involvement in installs in the future though Gulf States thinks they’re well suited to do at reassembly. Not my business how things wind up. But for me I’m looking forward to having oxygen with what may be little clutter and impact to the cargo area. If all goes well the Gulf States demo “ghost” will have this setup as will mine that will be at Oshkosh. I’m sure more updates and thoughts on this forum prior to then…

 

[Matt Ricciardi]

1 hour ago, Jim Badalamenti said:

I’m sure more updates and thoughts on this forum prior to then…

Thanks, Jim.  This is helpful.  I'm holding off on an oxygen installation for now, but I still plan to install one in the future.  Very interested to hear how the bottle-less system works -- definitely more convenient!